Patriotism and anger in English Canada
December 5, 2008 8:46 am Canadian PoliticsThose who have seen the recent polls favouring the Conservatives and who are surprised should read this. Those who are not surprised will find confirmation of their beliefs here.
I am going to take the risk of saying something I believe to be true.
There is a dangerous streak of anger in English Canada, as well as a beleaguered patriotism, that can be mobilized in an instant against the separatists, which normally is kept locked in a freezer deep in the basement. It is really dangerous to bring it out, and events, not Harper, brought it out this time. It will be put back in the freezer until events summon it forth again.
The tensions of sustaining civil relations to a party that just wants to take and not give is slightly comparable to the tensions in the US before the Civil War, though far less likely to explode in this country, because the underlying sentiments of separatists and English Canadians have been adjusted to each other more successfully (so far) through federalism, and English Canada recognizes that if Quebec wants to go, nothing will stop it and no one needs to stop it. Quebec’s formal separation will be the moment when its political class, as well as its people, will have to start to pay the freight for Quebec’s economic and social policies. A sudden onrush of realism will overtake the province’s politics when that happens.
There is no cause worth dying for to keep French Canada attached if they really want to leave. But don’t leave with the family property, most Canadians would add. Also I would say that over the course of my lifetime, the proportion of English Canadians who believe we are only different from the States because of Quebec is diminishing, and that the bonds of affection between French and English Canada, real though they are, are diminishing over time as we have less to do with one another.
In essence I am saying that two forces converged in the opposition to the Liberal-NDP parliamentary coup, one an opposition to the parliamentary tactics to take over government without an election, and the other a rage against the Bloc and all its stands for.
I make no estimate of their relative importance, except to say that they are both at play in the current situation.
This, for what it is worth, is my analysis. It suggests that Prime Minister Harper has tapped into the monster in the basement, and notwithstanding the tremors of the commentariat, and the real risks of national fragmentation, he will ride this to majority government.
![[del.icio.us]](http://images.del.icio.us/static/img/delicious.small.gif){kind=small}
Dalwhinnie
jeff in Ctown :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:01 AM
I tend to aggree with you. If this coalition had enough MPs to outnumber the conservities with just the liberals and the NDP, although I would not be pleased, I would not be sending letters to the GG, and attending protests. The real probelm is that the Bloc are involved (even thought the coalition clames they really arn’t).
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:05 AM
I don’t intend this to sound mean in any way, or sound fueled by passion, however I must say, if they really feel upset or alienated b/c of Harpers frustration with the bloc and its new friends……………then they know what they have to do.
They can leave with everything they have, including their socialism, but not with Canadian passports, currency, and the welfare cheque.
It is for Quebecers to decide, not me, not you, not PMSH, not the coalition, not the conservatives, not anyone else………only the Quebecers.
wilson :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:08 AM
Absolutely!
When Quebecers turned to the Bloc, not because they support separatism, but just because they ‘want’, Canadians said ‘enough’.
It’s one thing to stand up for something you believe in,
we respect that.
But to vote for a separatist party only for personal gain is unacceptable.
The history books will show that Danny and Duceppe and the coalition with their battle cry ‘ABC’ made the worst mistake of their political lives.
They woke up the Conservative movement in Canada.
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:09 AM
While the Coalition is associated with the Bloc right now, it would be nice to see a referendum. Get it over with. I mean, even if Harper drew a line in the sand………..he had given them the world and it’s still not enough.
I take personal offense, I mean, he is MY prime minister, I never felt that way about any other pm to be honest.
This is the best time to deal with the issue, because if he does instigate or literally ask them to make a decision (ie; call a referendum) then we can get over with it, and the coalition can not hang it on our heads. After all, they are with the bloc.
James Givens :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:10 AM
Babylonian. I will give your comment the benefit of the doubt in Quebecers get to choose whether or not they stay within Canada.
By extension, the native indians that currently own most of Northern Quebec can also decide to stay within Canada.
You can’t have one without the other.
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:11 AM
“Absolutely!
When Quebecers turned to the Bloc, not because they support separatism, but just because they ‘want’, Canadians said ‘enough’.
It’s one thing to stand up for something you believe in,
we respect that.
But to vote for a separatist party only for personal gain is unacceptable.
The history books will show that Danny and Duceppe and the coalition with their battle cry ‘ABC’ made the worst mistake of their political lives.
They woke up the Conservative movement in Canada.”
AMEN!!! (1000 fold)
- John
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:15 AM
James, you probably know more then me about the details, I am just looking at the big picture. This is not to sound like natives are dumb, but they tend to live meek simple lives, are very humble, and from the ones I have met, are very clear on their CANADIAN identity. I have only met a handful though.
It just seems Quebecers are more complicated then that, and their having way to much influence on the rest of Canada.
I am not sure really. What you will see is a great exodus of people from Quebec should that happen, not the opposite.
wilson :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:15 AM
PMSH did not invite Duceppe to the budget table.
Warning, tough love coming down the pipe!
There already is a referendum, Monday.
It’s called a provincial election, and Charest is headed for a majority.
After all the ’separatist bashing’ PMSH has been accused of,
if Quebecers wanted to separate, they would install the PQ.
charlie98 :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:19 AM
Quebec right now has the best of both worlds. They receive IIRC ~$8B in transfer payments while retaining the ability to shape federal policies via the separation threat as a club. And since the ROC seems split between liberal and conservative values Quebec remains the decider. Just ask Harper and his move to cut cultural spending, resultinh on lost votes in Quebec that cost him a majority. I don’t find it a coincidence that 3 of the 4 major party leaders are from Quebec.
Why give up a position that might net you an extra $1B from the Libs just so you won’t bring down the government?
It is Quebec’s choice to stay or go and it is our choice, or not, to continue to put up with the threats.
Quebec will never go, they are economically viable in North America.
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:22 AM
“PMSH did not invite Duceppe to the budget table.
Warning, tough love coming down the pipe!”
wow, what timing eh? When they didn’t give PMSH more votes this election, b/c of the stupid arts comment (which was blown WAY out of context) and proposed anti-hug-a-thug legislation (which was even modified for them out of the rest of Canada). I felt really pissed, personally, and on Harpers behalf. I said to myself, if you can’t give when you get, it’s just not worth trying anymore.
This coalition will be the “Super Mario 1-up” that Canada needs to solve this problem once and for all.
Again, I don’t subscribe to the “screw them”, “let them just leave!” attitude, let us be compassionate, respectful, and diplomatic about this.
goodie :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:56 AM
I have a great deal of respect for the Quebec people but I think if they want to leave they should be allowed to go .
Our govt. has always bent over backward to keep Quebec happy so they won’t separate but now we need to let them go.
skuleman :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 10:57 AM
If the PQ and Bloc want ot make a case they should separate, then the option must also be there to allow separation along the original borders at confederation. The resource rich north can stay in Canada as a new Territory or Province and the Eastern Townships can come back to Ontario.
Yes, let’s have a referendum, but make it on a county by county basis.
My bet is the Ottawa valley, Montreal, and the Eastern Townships wouldn’t go. And as said above, the first nations own the north.
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 11:05 AM
1) Does Canada have a Gold reserve?
2) If the answer to question 1) is “Yes”, then please don’t tell me it’s in Quebec.
lol.
Send Harper (James Bond) in there to free up fort Knox against Duceppe (Odd Job)
wilson :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 11:15 AM
Quebec can not separate at the federal level,
Quebecers have to do it at the provincial level.
Quebers vote on Monday.
Charest gets his 3rd mandate,
goes from minority to majority government, on Monday.
That will be a slap in the face to the PQ and Bloc.
wilson :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 11:20 AM
Poor seppies,
Canadians don’t want the Bloc at their Christmas party,
and Quebecers invited the PQ to their Christmas party but only because they were on the party list last year.
Anne in sw ON :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 11:22 AM
I think the Bloc, not “Quebec” is responsible for how the rest of Canada feels about “Quebec’s” ability to hold our hands to the fire. The Bloc seems to be able to get more from ANY national government with their threats. They have succeeded in getting the ransom paid year after year. The economy is the big problem for the Bloc at this point. They could not possibly negotiate trade agreements anywhere, including the U.S. and France. So threatening separation/sovereignty now is a non-starter. Ergo, what better strategy is there to keep their party in a superior position in the polls than for the Bloc to saddle up with another socialist bunch and to rope in a second party leader desperate for recognition/immortality. It was now or never for the Bloc to act. The timing of their action may have been right for them but they had not counted on Harper or the Canadian people to call their bluff. Now who is supposed to be conciliatory? Who is supposed to play “nice”? Who is supposed to roll over and play dead? The Canadian people have a voice and it’s finally shouting back, “Enough already. You’ve got your fair share. You can’t have mine, too!”
Brian Ring :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 11:36 AM
Yes, at last the contemporary fight for federalism may be out of the closet. We will problem solve both intended and un-intended consequences if we hold to lessons learned by our founders. A superior risk than giving a proxy to the high minded elites, their factions and thus defacto control by agenda and actions to the BLOC
Babylonian :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 12:06 PM
Lets brand the left……….
“New-LIBOCRATICS”
“New-LIBOCRATICS”
“New-LIBOCRATICS”
This will surely piss of the baptized liberals, who love their brand so much. I am telling you, what a way to kill their name.
Did anyone ever wonder why they make a new name? Even if they called it a termporary one……..they know how the word “Liberal” gets them votes easily.
Pass it on!!!
duggan's dew :
Date: December 5, 2008 @ 1:25 PM
The Czechs and Slovaks gave us some pointers on how to separate, peacefully and responsibly. Any talk of ‘Canada will never’ and ‘Quebec must’ simply doesn’t apply in a situation involving families, property, careers and a closely aligned economic future. There can be no question of vindictiveness or spite or anger. The goal would be entities that stand on their own, politically and econmically. In a well-managed, well-planned separation, Canada and Quebec might wind up in both NAFTA and the EU, with those institutions possibly helping to mediate some of the inevitable tensions. Separation would be a long and expensive exercise, calling for a level of patience and understanding of which both parties are quite capable. If the present political impasse lasts much longer, Quebec may find its will for separation matched if not exceeded by the rest of Canada’s.